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Post by The Duchess on Mar 28, 2020 18:46:19 GMT -5
There's something especially charming about anecdotes pertaining to historical figures. These snippets of their lives may be deemed as irrelevant to the Big Scheme, but for me, reading them can really help to bring that person to life. My main principle in history is to always, always remember that historical figures are human. It's such an obvious statement, I know, but when we are looking at them through the veils of the centuries, and reading about all their accomplishments and failures, they become some sort of distant, quasi-human figure; in short, history tends to make its subjects seem not quite real. My philosophy is to always approach the person you're studying as a person, and not as an actor in some grand plot beyond their control. One way to get access to that real human figure is to push away all the heavy, dense "important" stuff to reveal their humanity in anecdotes. My love for just such things has compelled me to start up this thread. Bound by neither geography nor centuries, here you can deposit your favourite historical anecdotes, and read what other users posted. Be they funny, heartwarming, sad, perplexing, interesting, or just plain weird, this is the place to post them. It's good fun, a good distraction (which I think we all need in March 2020), and you can learn a lot from what others may have deemed unimportant or frivolous.
I'll start us off with two stories about Charles II and James II (the latter of whom was still the Duke of York during the time of these anecdotes).
- Charles had a bit of a penchant for walking around London without a bodyguard. During the politically fraught times of the later '70s and '80s, his brother James, Duke of York and heir presumptive, approached him and said that it was worrying to see him walking around without guards, as he could very easily be assassinated. Charles responded to James' worries with a very in-character remark: "Dear Jamie, they wouldn't kill me to make you king!" Charles, though secretly a Catholic, still ruled as a Protestant king. James, however, was a Catholic, married to an Italian Catholic, and made no efforts to hide his faith.
- Both brothers kept quite a few mistresses over the years. However, the type of women who they involved themselves with couldn't be any more different. Among Charles' most well-known mistresses are Nell Gwynne, Louise de Kerouaille, and Barbara Villiers; women who were all considered to be extremely beautiful. James, on the other hand, took mistresses such as Katherine Sedley and Arabella Churchill, who were not buxom, conventionally beautiful women. Charles, upon observing James' rather unorthodox mistresses, asked his brother if his exceptionally ugly mistresses were given to him by his priest for penance.
I think that this has proved, above all else, that having an older sibling antagonise you is a constant throughout all of history.
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Post by Aurelia on Mar 28, 2020 19:16:48 GMT -5
I'll start us off with two stories about Charles II and James II (the latter of whom was still the Duke of York during the time of these anecdotes).
- Charles had a bit of a penchant for walking around London without a bodyguard. During the politically fraught times of the later '70s and '80s, his brother James, Duke of York and heir presumptive, approached him and said that it was worrying to see him walking around without guards, as he could very easily be assassinated. Charles responded to James' worries with a very in-character remark: "Dear Jamie, they wouldn't kill me to make you king!" Charles, though secretly a Catholic, still ruled as a Protestant king. James, however, was a Catholic, married to an Italian Catholic, and made no efforts to hide his faith.
- Both brothers kept quite a few mistresses over the years. However, the type of women who they involved themselves with couldn't be any more different. Among Charles' most well-known mistresses are Nell Gwynne, Louise de Kerouaille, and Barbara Villiers; women who were all considered to be extremely beautiful. James, on the other hand, took mistresses such as Katherine Sedley and Arabella Churchill, who were not buxom, conventionally beautiful women. Charles, upon observing James' rather unorthodox mistresses, asked his brother if his exceptionally ugly mistresses were given to him by his priest for penance.
I think that this has proved, above all else, that having an older sibling antagonise you is a constant throughout all of history.
Oh, dear! Poor James!!!  |
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Post by The Duchess on Mar 29, 2020 16:16:49 GMT -5
In the latter half of the 1670s and the first few years of the 1680s, Katherine Sedley was James, Duke of York's maîtresse-en-titre. She wasn't conventionally pretty -- she was tall, slender, and dark -- but she had a very bright, irrepressible wit, which often manifested itself by the way of shocking one-liners. Their relationship, however, did not survive very long into James' kingship, which came to a very abrupt end in 1688. James' son-in-law/nephew and daughter -- William and Mary, respectively -- took the throne in 1689, overthrowing James through forcing him to abdicate during the so-called Revolution. Katherine, despite this new direction, remained at court, much to the chagrin of Mary. The queen refused to tolerate the presence her father's erstwhile mistress. Of course, Katherine asked why, and Mary replied with, "It is because you violated the seventh commandment: thou shall not commit adultery."
Whip-smart, Katherine retorted, "Well, you violated the fifth commandment: honour thy father."
Her wit shone through once more at George I's coronation in 1715, where she discovered Louise de Kerouaille and Elizabeth Villiers in attendance; who were, respectively, mistresses of Charles II and William III. Upon approaching the two women, Katherine exclaimed, "By God! Who would've thought that us three old whores would be here?" As the coronation wore on, and it was asked if everyone swore allegiance to the new king, Katherine looked around the room, noting all the armed soldiers, and quipped, "What, does this old goat think anyone will say no with all these soldiers around?"
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Post by Octavio on Mar 29, 2020 19:03:26 GMT -5
Our first empress, Maria Leopoldina, was a Habsburg, and as such, people expected she to be conservative and absolutist.
When the revolution became iminent, Leopoldina took a different turn: Instead of being like most of the Habsburgs in Europe, she brought to Brazil the Enlightenment ideals, and considered herself among the Brazilian people, instead of calling herself an Austrian. In one of her letters, addressed to a noble who defended that the decision of Pedro I, at the time heir to the United Kingdom of Portugal Brazil and Algarves, was the most correct to keep the Portuguese Empire from falling, she wrote:
"You can be sure that we, Brazilians, would never suffer from the excentries of the Motherland, and we would always trail the roads of honor and loyalty".
She also made sure that during the early ages of independence, no Portuguese loyalist would take part in the government, calling them "plumber-handed"
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Post by The Duchess on Mar 29, 2020 19:09:07 GMT -5
Our first empress, Maria Leopoldina, was a Habsburg, and as such, people expected she to be conservative and absolutist. When the revolution became iminent, Leopoldina took a different turn: Instead of being like most of the Habsburgs in Europe, she brought to Brazil the Enlightenment ideals, and considered herself among the Brazilian people, instead of calling herself an Austrian. In one of her letters, addressed to a noble who defended that the decision of Pedro I, at the time heir to the United Kingdom of Portugal Brazil and Algarves, was the most correct to keep the Portuguese Empire from falling, she wrote: "You can be sure that we, Brazilians, would never suffer from the excentries of the Motherland, and we would always trail the roads of honor and loyalty". She also made sure that during the early ages of independence, no Portuguese loyalist would take part in the government, calling them "plumber-handed" Again, she's a very striking woman. The fact that she is a Habsburg and was so devoted to Enlightenment principles is interesting. Did she suffer from any serious reduction in her power for adhering to such ideas? I wonder how her actions were received by her family back in Europe. Do we know? |
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Post by Octavio on Mar 29, 2020 19:13:04 GMT -5
Our first empress, Maria Leopoldina, was a Habsburg, and as such, people expected she to be conservative and absolutist. When the revolution became iminent, Leopoldina took a different turn: Instead of being like most of the Habsburgs in Europe, she brought to Brazil the Enlightenment ideals, and considered herself among the Brazilian people, instead of calling herself an Austrian. In one of her letters, addressed to a noble who defended that the decision of Pedro I, at the time heir to the United Kingdom of Portugal Brazil and Algarves, was the most correct to keep the Portuguese Empire from falling, she wrote: "You can be sure that we, Brazilians, would never suffer from the excentries of the Motherland, and we would always trail the roads of honor and loyalty". She also made sure that during the early ages of independence, no Portuguese loyalist would take part in the government, calling them "plumber-handed" Again, she's a very striking woman. The fact that she is a Habsburg and was so devoted to Enlightenment principles is interesting. Did she suffer from any serious reduction in her power for adhering to such ideas? I wonder how her actions were received by her family back in Europe. Do we know? At first she was a bit submissive to her father, Franz Joseph, but eventually she became a mastermind politician, specially at the time she acted as Regent in Brazil. She started to see herself more as a Brazilian than an Austrian, and the people loved she a lot |
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Post by The Duchess on Mar 30, 2020 19:58:36 GMT -5
After watching her perform in a play, King Charles II was so impressed by Nell Gwynne's acting abilities that he invited her to dinner with him and his brother, James, Duke of York. They sat down to a nice meal, and when it came time to pay, everyone, of course, turned to the king. Charles let his company know that he had no money on him, and so the buck was passed to James, who said the same thing. Nell Gwynne, the lowly prostitute-turned-actress, looked at the royal brothers in disbelief, before crying out, "Oddsfish! This is the poorest company I've ever been in!" There are two versions of the story concerning its ending: Nell either paid for the meal herself, or George Villiers, 2nd Duke of Buckingham, swept in and covered the cost of the royal entourage and the orange girl.
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Post by Woland on Apr 24, 2020 13:27:06 GMT -5
In 1675 the Ottoman Empire lost a battle to the Zaporozhian Cossacks, the wild, freedom-loving horsemen based in modern Ukraine. However, Sultan Mehmed IV demanded they submit to Ottoman rule with the following letter:
Sultan Mehmed IV to the Zaporozhian Cossacks: As the Sultan; son of Muhammad; brother of the sun and moon; grandson and viceroy of God; ruler of the kingdoms of Macedonia, Babylon, Jerusalem, Upper and Lower Egypt; emperor of emperors; sovereign of sovereigns; extraordinary knight, never defeated; steadfast guardian of the tomb of Jesus Christ; trustee chosen by God Himself; the hope and comfort of Muslims; confounder and great defender of Christians – I command you, the Zaporogian Cossacks, to submit to me voluntarily and without any resistance, and to desist from troubling me with your attacks.
— Turkish Sultan Mehmed IV
The Cossacks response was less than diplomatic:
Zaporozhian Cossacks to the Turkish Sultan!
O sultan, Turkish devil and damned devil's kith and kin, secretary to Lucifer himself. What the devil kind of knight are thou, that canst not slay a hedgehog with your naked arse? The devil shits, and your army eats. Thou shalt not, thou son of a whore, make subjects of Christian sons; we have no fear of your army, by land and by sea we will battle with thee, fuck thy mother.
Thou Babylonian scullion, Macedonian wheelwright, brewer of Jerusalem, goat-fucker of Alexandria, swineherd of Greater and Lesser Egypt, pig of Armenia, Podolian thief, catamite of Tartary, hangman of Kamyanets, and fool of all the world and underworld, an idiot before God, grandson of the Serpent, and the crick in our dick. Pig's snout, mare's arse, slaughterhouse cur, unchristened brow, screw thine own mother!
So the Zaporozhians declare, you lowlife. You won't even be herding pigs for the Christians. Now we'll conclude, for we don't know the date and don't own a calendar; the moon's in the sky, the year with the Lord, the day's the same over here as it is over there; for this kiss our arse!
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Post by Aurelia on May 1, 2020 14:19:31 GMT -5
I'm a bit sad about the death of my new, old rose Souvenir de la Malmaison ... and in a sort of memoriam of its passing, I thought I'd share anecdote about another possible rose admirer, Joshua Lawrence Chamberlain. Towards the end of the war, Joshua's brother, Thomas, had been appointed to the position of Provost Marshal - on his list of duties was receiving an oath of allegiance to the the United States and having the oath takers kiss the Bible; in return they would be given for food and other provisions. Apparently one particularly prepossessing young woman came to give the oath, and it was explained to her what she needed to say and do... but she was too much for Tom! Lawrence was called upon to help settle the matter - his letters describes the embarrassing encounter in hilarious detail: The reference to the Jacqueminot most likely is a reference to the bright red hybrid perpetual rose cultivar, 'Général Jacqueminot', first bred in 1853. Was Chamberlain a rose fancier? It seems like he must have been to some degree to use this colorful comparison! Below is an image of the 'Général Jacqueminot' or 'General Jack' rose.  |
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Post by Woland on May 13, 2020 19:46:57 GMT -5
Irving Thalberg (head of MGM) was a very busy man, taking so many phonecalls it was almost impossible to have a meeting with him. The Marx Brothers got so tired waiting outside his office they moved heavy filing cabinets infront of his door to spite him. After this incident he tried having meetings but would be interrupted by phonecalls or have to take another meeting, annoying the Marx Brothers. One time when he returned from another meeting, Irving Thalberg walked into his office and found Groucho, Chico and Harpo completely naked, roasting potatoes on sticks by his fireplace.
After that Thalberg never missed nor interrupted a meeting with them.
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