generalpl4gue
Initiate
I'm about to cross the Rubicon. But i don't have an only legion!
Posts: 60
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Post by generalpl4gue on Oct 5, 2019 23:36:04 GMT -5
Hello there! I was studying about WWII, all the political background, and I realize that all the world was beeing permeated by Fascists Political movements. And the Fascist Movement that took my attention was the BUF. Founded and Leadered by Oswald Mosley, British Union of Fascists was a political party founded in 1932, during the international rising os Fascism, guided by Benito Mussolini and his Rome March made by the Camicie niere. BUF, as well as all the Fascist Parties in the World, had a sight based in a series of ideals: cult of personality, multi-class members, total State, structural violence, anti-semitism, ethnocentrism and paramilitary wing. A thing that surprised me was how much support BUF received, gathering famous politicians, personalities, businessmen, laborers and etc. The Blackshirts, as they recognized themselves, was leadered by Oswald Mosley, the sixth baronet, that was the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster during 1929-1930, and member of parliament between 1926-1931 and 1918-1924. There's a lot of things that i want to discuss about it, but I will narrow my view over the headfigure of BUF, Mosley. Initially, Mosley was really close to Mussolini and Hitler. I saw that He married his second wife in the Joseph Goebbbels' house, in 1936, having Hitler as their "honour guest". I really couldn't understand why Mosley, a figure strictly linked with enemies, Hitler and Mussolini, could be freely working in his political party, making movements, sharing propaganda and other things. I even think that He could be giving important information to Axes, using his power and influence. Going deep, during the war Mosley was "arrested". In my juridical view, Mosley committed lesè-majestè while maintaining close relations with the enemy or even spying, what should be enough to hang him. His Party promoted a lot of Marchs ( like Cabble Street Battle, that can be a great point to thread), movements that offered real threat to British Stability and Sovereignity during the war or its proximity. A lot of people were hanged for a lot of less. I think that He was arrested and not executed because its nobility tittle. He had some political importance, beyond his family importance. What do you think about it?
Surprise yourselves, but after the war he was granted political asylum in France, living until 1980.
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Tomatolake
Tyro
Death to the Japanese, Pagan, Yorkshireman
Posts: 27 
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Post by Tomatolake on Oct 6, 2019 0:05:35 GMT -5
Being a member of the British Fascist party was not a crime.
Even though he was close to Hitler and the Fascist he was not a collaborator, nor did he betray his country in any way.
As far as I am aware all he did was plead with the other political party's to accept Hitlers peace deal. (No different from Lord Halifax) and as such could not be hanged.
He was interned under Defense Regulation 18b which allowed for the interment of possible Nazi-sympathizers. This is very different from actively betraying the country and as a result he could be imprisoned but not executed. In fact Mosley was released from imprisonment in 1943 after becoming ill. (Much to the public's disgust)
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generalpl4gue
Initiate
I'm about to cross the Rubicon. But i don't have an only legion!
Posts: 60
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Post by generalpl4gue on Oct 6, 2019 10:04:02 GMT -5
For example: in Brazil, to prevent spying or sabotage, was strictly prohibited to speak German, Italian or Japanese.If you spoke in these languages , you would be charged in national defense crimes, that could result in death penalty. UK, in a fragile situation, just some miles away from the enemies, should established more strict laws.
Mosley did a lot of mess with his movements, a lot of them resulting in true civil battles.
I agree with you. If State couldn't prove his liability, it's forbidden to jail him, even more to hang him. But somehow this space gave to nazi growth really bothers me, eventhough if they were openly antisemitic.
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Post by Earl of Rochester on Oct 10, 2019 17:47:41 GMT -5
Does Brazil have habeas corpus and the idea of being innocent before proven guilty? That's long been the tradition in English speaking countries which inherited the British legal system. Presumably the difference is due to South America inheriting the Roman style laws from Spain and Portugal?
Even nowadays suspected terrorists can only be imprisoned for 24hrs until evidence is provided and all have access to legal aid.
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generalpl4gue
Initiate
I'm about to cross the Rubicon. But i don't have an only legion!
Posts: 60
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Post by generalpl4gue on Oct 21, 2019 10:40:49 GMT -5
Does Brazil have habeas corpus and the idea of being innocent before proven guilty? That's long been the tradition in English speaking countries which inherited the British legal system. Presumably the difference is due to South America inheriting the Roman style laws from Spain and Portugal? Even nowadays suspected terrorists can only be imprisoned for 24hrs until evidence is provided and all have access to legal aid. Yes, Earl, We have Habeas Corpus and Presumption of Innocence, all the ordinary constiturional medicines to prevent illegal prisons or State opressions. But during War, he have an interesting juridical institution, The State of Siege. Since Roman Empire (it was called Justitium), when there is some harm to established power and Constitucional order, our constitutional law allows a huge rights narrowing. Most part of Latin America and Continental Europe have this institution. So, with Constitutional allowance, during State of Siege, It's permitted to imprison someone with bare clues of liability ( no need of Charge or guilty proved in a court). There is other restrictions, like narrowing free speech, locomotion and meeting rights. During WWII it was applied (It is important to assert that Brazilian was a dictatorship during 1930-1946), with a huge narrow over civilian freedoms, like I said, reaching a "speaking prohibition". In Brazil or in USA ( due to Patriotic Act) there are many imprison permissions to jail terrorist or even people with possible relations with terrorist, eventhough they were not charged or found guilty by a court. Now, with a lot of Human Rights Treaties, we even have a lot of Civilian rights injuries. Can yoy imagine during 1945, in a violent war scenery? I made an academic research during my Bachelor degre on Criminal Law. I was really in German Law and doctrine. There is a really good Law Professor ( form University of Bönn), Günther Jakobs, that He use to write about "Enemy's criminal law" (Feindstrafrecht), an institute that every State enemy, like terrorists or someone who cooperate with external harmful forces, can not have their rights recognized by the State. So, under this theory, I understood that everyone with relations with Nazi German, like Mosley, could be considered "an enemy", with no right to have rights. But we cannot forget that your juridical tradiction is really different form Continental Europe ( I really enjoy the freedom prevalence that your order guarantees). |
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