|
|
Post by kevinmeath on Sept 14, 2019 10:04:11 GMT -5
Definitely the Ironclad. At a stroke they made all the worlds navy's obsolete But the French already had the Gloire in service and in response the British had HMS Warrior and Prince of Wales in service. Moreover these were sea going battleships not riverine gunboats like the Monitor. |
|
Tomatolake
Tyro
Death to the Japanese, Pagan, Yorkshireman
Posts: 27 
|
Post by Tomatolake on Sept 14, 2019 18:33:22 GMT -5
Definitely the Ironclad. At a stroke they made all the worlds navy's obsolete But the French already had the Gloire in service and in response the British had HMS Warrior and Prince of Wales in service. Moreover these were sea going battleships not riverine gunboats like the Monitor. True. However watching 2 Ironclads pound it out at the Battle of the Hampton Roads, and being completely unable to damage each other. (Aside from deafening the gunners) Made them all realize that their wooden ships were obsolete and they needed Ironclads to compete, and armor piercing shells.
Also good to see you Kevin, it's Lawnmowerman here.
|
|
|
|
Post by kevinmeath on Sept 14, 2019 19:38:28 GMT -5
But the French already had the Gloire in service and in response the British had HMS Warrior and Prince of Wales in service. Moreover these were sea going battleships not riverine gunboats like the Monitor. True. However watching 2 Ironclads pound it out at the Battle of the Hampton Roads, and being completely unable to damage each other. (Aside from deafening the gunners) Made them all realize that their wooden ships were obsolete and they needed Ironclads to compete, and armor piercing shells.
Also good to see you Kevin, it's Lawnmowerman here.
Good, not posting on any sight as much as I used to but will give here a go. The Monitors etc are over rated in that while it was a significant battle it was not as ground breaking as often stated because the British and before them the French were building ocean going battleships It's an interesting debate who would win USS Monitor or HMS Warrior. |
|
|
|
Post by Earl of Rochester on Sept 15, 2019 5:42:57 GMT -5
Wasn't it the movable turret that was the real revolution? Monitor had a turret, Warrior didn't. Wouldn't that make all the difference? I suppose Monitor also had a very low deck so, as stated, wouldn't be an ocean-going vessel and that might restrict her with manoeuvrability. It's rather a white elephant if you have an advanced ship that can't go to blue water.
|
|
|
|
Post by kevinmeath on Sept 15, 2019 6:11:45 GMT -5
Wasn't it the movable turret that was the real revolution? Monitor had a turret, Warrior didn't. Wouldn't that make all the difference? I suppose Monitor also had a very low deck so, as stated, wouldn't be an ocean-going vessel and that might restrict her with manoeuvrability. It's rather a white elephant if you have an advanced ship that can't go to blue water.
It was innovative and the Monitor was a very 'interesting' and new warship but just not quite the 'ground breaking leap' that is often claimed because the ideas were all in the area of Naval design and indeed the French and British already had ocean going ironclad warships. The Monitor was just that a coastal riverine warship (which is exactly what was required-- they'd have been idiots to build anything!) if it tried to go to sea HMS Warrior would perhaps not even have to fire a shot just let it flounder-- or pass close to it at high speed and allow its bow wave to do the rest.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 15, 2019 11:17:50 GMT -5
What about the hot air balloon? I know it was not a weapon as such, but the ability to spot Confederate troop movements and direct artillery fire would have given the Union an important edge surely as well as indirectly causing casualties.
|
|
|
|
Post by Aurelia on Sept 15, 2019 13:56:56 GMT -5
Wasn't it the movable turret that was the real revolution? Monitor had a turret, Warrior didn't. Wouldn't that make all the difference? I suppose Monitor also had a very low deck so, as stated, wouldn't be an ocean-going vessel and that might restrict her with manoeuvrability. It's rather a white elephant if you have an advanced ship that can't go to blue water. I was always impressed by the rotating gun turret... I thought that was pretty revolutionary for the time. |
|
|
|
Post by Windischer on Sept 15, 2019 13:59:59 GMT -5
What about the hot air balloon? I know it was not a weapon as such, but the ability to spot Confederate troop movements and direct artillery fire would have given the Union an important edge surely as well as indirectly causing casualties. They were already used by the French republican army after the Revolution in the 1790s. |
|
|
|
Post by Aurelia on Sept 15, 2019 14:30:17 GMT -5
True. However watching 2 Ironclads pound it out at the Battle of the Hampton Roads, and being completely unable to damage each other. (Aside from deafening the gunners) Made them all realize that their wooden ships were obsolete and they needed Ironclads to compete, and armor piercing shells.
Also good to see you Kevin, it's Lawnmowerman here.
Good, not posting on any sight as much as I used to but will give here a go. The Monitors etc are over rated in that while it was a significant battle it was not as ground breaking as often stated because the British and before them the French were building ocean going battleships It's an interesting debate who would win USS Monitor or HMS Warrior. I think much would depend on where the Warrior vs. Monitor took place... In open water/rough weather, the Monitor would have probably sunk on her own (as it was designed for rivers and shallow water with the low draft and water-line hugging design). LOL. Monitor sunk in the sort of weather most sea-going ships would survive. In closer quarters like a harbor, the Monitor's thicker armor, protected rudder/propeller and rotating turret might have given Warrior a run for her money. The Merrymack was just a modified steam frigate with angled armor plates... the Monitor was something rather new in terms of design. One of the designs by Ericsson that never made it onto the Monitor were these "hydrostatic javelins" or torpedoes ... that would have been interesting had they seen action. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 15, 2019 14:36:58 GMT -5
What about the hot air balloon? I know it was not a weapon as such, but the ability to spot Confederate troop movements and direct artillery fire would have given the Union an important edge surely as well as indirectly causing casualties. They were already used by the French republican army after the Revolution in the 1790s. BOOM!  |
|
